I meant in a broader context. Windows users will only know that Windows
sucks and that it is part of the problem, if they experience it for what it
is. If we assist them in living in the delusion that they are in a
safe environment, then we do them no favours. Aside from that I have become
a bit jaded about it all. It does not affect me and so why should I care if
others persist in using an OS made of Swiss cheese.Those Russian botnets
exploit XP machines and while they are doing harm they would not be able to
to it as effectively if Microsoft was on the ball.
Here is an example. Someone will find an exploit and announce it publicly
so that users will know and expect MS to patch it. So, MS goes all quiet
first. Then they deny it when asked directly. Then they say they are
looking into it. Then they admit it and say that they are working on a fix.
Then they say the fix will be available next patch Tuesday which is two
weeks away. A month has passed and those botnets have been busy and the
problem has travelled aroud the world affecting millions of MS customers.
That would be bad if it happened just once, but it is the script.
So, little old me, using Linux thinks, if MS does not care, why should I?
MS has denied that the said botnets use Windows or exploit Windows, but
they also say that the world will be safer when XP is closed down. We live
in a world of contradictions. My contradiction is that using Linux to help
Windows users is like peeing on a forest fire when the forest ranger is
asleep and the arsonists know it. As I said, I have been around the block a
few times and have lost my enthusiasm for helping those who do not want it.
So I handle the contradiction of not seeming to care, by using something
that is far safer and trying to spread the word that it does not have to be
this way, rather than saving people who do not know they are in trouble and
are not asking for my help.
Using an AV for me is not a good use of my time. I would rather be typing
long messages to you. :)
Roy
Using Kubuntu 11.10, 64-bit
Location: Canada
On 31 October 2011 23:11, G.LinuxDucks <g.linuxducks@gmail.com> wrote:
> **
>
>
> That;s a very unfair position and untrue of Windows and Microsoft. But
> you mention your reasons which can be understood.
>
> I think this is offensive actually ..... (quoted)
>
> <<<but we need to burn our fingers a few times before we learn to avoid
> fire. >>>
>
> I am guessing you probably mean the crew that does other than "Safe
> Practices" - meaning visiting shady areas on the Net, opening spams
> looking for possible deals actually (Spam Mart lol) , going for free
> stuff in Peer to Peer, etc.
>
> Otherwise (and I had opened a IT Security for Home/Small Business in
> South East Pennsylvania USA with a couple of programmers in the family)
> that is very offensive to the chronic 45 to 55 Billion USDollars ripped
> off from USA Citizens yearly since stats going back to 2005-6 and the
> approximately 4 percent that became "un-people" that can never get
> credit cards again because of the credit companies as a direct result of
> the ID Theft committed against them. These people were as normal and
> average as any User on the world wide web. They were not security savvy
> and got scammed, ripped off, and victims of Identity Theft and further
> in business as victims of crimewares called "Ransomware". These people
> certainly did not need to ...
>
> <<<but we need to burn our fingers a few times before we learn to avoid
> fire. >>> ....they were innocent victims of crimewares and botnets being
> run by dangerous murderous internet crime gangs - many being the young
> "Russian Gangs".
>
> This would tread by me into what nobody here wants to here - a windows
> security thang. Microsoft has been up for monopoly charges several
> times. No angels - but mostly found innocent. But we are talking Linux
> security and there are two incidents that turned the head. One was Linux
> was among a handful of others in official legal publications legally
> termed as "riskware " in 2009 I believe it was. Microsoft Windows has
> never been legally termed as "riskware". This is a legal court term too.
> Linux NEVER disputed that. The other is that Windows Vista is the ONLY
> found operating system and software that does not allow rootkits to run
> on or in it as Linux does. Neither had Linux achieved Unix Certification
> whereas Windows was the only one to do so until very very very recently.
> For education visit "Vista Bashing". Bill Gates and Microsoft were ready
> to sue at law for libel the lies and defaming of Vista that had reached
> levels of actually hurting sales. Some Linux users and otherwise love to
> be Windows Bashers and will lie through their teeth while doing it -
> possibly even setting up their new marks for cyber crime on Linux. The
> truth came out that it was software creators that have been the largest
> security hole on Windows - not Windows. That's what the Vista release
> was all about. It was so sophisticated that even the antivirus companies
> took a couple of years to create "Vista Certified" products. Most - the
> best they could create was "Works With Vista" and most all software
> creators to this day. This shows who the master programmers are in the
> world. This is why it is locked code as 90 percent of the world uses it.
> Sure they got rich. So did Henry Ford and still sells a reasonably
> priced product with all the competition. Windows Vista was actually the
> crown jewel of security software for the decade (2000 - 2010). Viruses
> can NOT write to the computer disk in Vista. Rootkits can NOT run on
> Vista with UAC on as instructed and recommended (User Account Control).
> I don;t believe there is any other such operating system in the world.
> It was intentionally designed for this and Bill Gates and Microsoft
> challenged the world to create more secure softwares. They knew Vista
> would bomb heavily because of software compatibility. This was quite
> INTENTIONAL. It was their crown jewel in computing security by creating
> the actual operating system itself as the most secure software in the
> world. It has taken this long to this year but the first reports of UAC
> being cracked by malware have come in.
>
> The whole point was that in security I did my homework and know what I
> am talking about. What is to blame is not Windows for you. What is to
> blame is the cyber criminal underground. These have so unmercifully
> without conscience attacked the world community of computer users in
> theft that makes the old american mafia look like a cancelled brownie
> meeting. A golden horde.
>
> I respect Linux and Users, and I am one and a contributor and will
> continue to be so for life no doubt. I don't think the spread of "feel
> good security" ignorantly or otherwise is helping anyone and especially
> the person trying to hide behind it - not believing it themselves. I
> feel your (quoted ) <<<I am a bit jaded about Windows.>>> should be
> where it belongs - against Cyber Thieves and not Windows. FYI... again
> Windows has been Unix Certified years and years ago meaning stable and
> secure. Linux has not achieved that as being only "Unix-Like" Certified
> as somewhat unstable and somewhat not secure.
>
> I think you need a lesson in security which may change your "jaded
> opinions of windows". In law and fact, the show is on the other foot and
> we should not deceive people as you made the best security point to
> being a responsible Netizen by securing your computer with your best
> ability as being malware free.
>
> That was a fantastic truth ISPs and the entire security community have
> wished for all users on all systems. That is my view and teaching that
> the beginning of wisdom on any computer is to "Never operate any
> computer without antivirus minimum". Period.
>
> gerald philly pa usa
> Perhaps a new string about security is necessary.
> (I have been on windows over 10 years)
>
>
> On 10/30/2011 5:13 PM, Roy wrote:
> > If anyone is unsure, the DO err on the side of caution. You are right. As
> > you use Linux then you will see what I said about being not worth the
> > effort. If I was a good citizen then I would care about spreading viruses
> > to Windows users. While I can' t be infected I can still be a carrier. If
> > you are conscientious, then this is a serious consideration. I am a bit
> > jaded about Windows. I figure that people get what they deserve. That may
> > sound harsh, but we need to burn our fingers a few times before we learn
> to
> > avoid fire.
> >
> > I appreciate your thoughts. It makes me remember how I once felt. It is
> not
> > wrong to feel like protecting others. I just feel the futility of it
> when I
> > know how big the problem is and how little MS cares about users or
> > security. Their answer is UEFI (not their invention, just their
> > excuse)which is like wrapping Swiss cheese in a zip lock. You can keep
> > things out but it is still Swiss cheese inside. Once you open the bag you
> > will risk mold and contamination. If they really cared then they would
> fill
> > the ziplock with something more substantial.
> >
> >
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2011/sep/28/windows-8-secure-boot-worry
> >
> > Roy
> >
> > Using Kubuntu 11.10, 64-bit
> > Location: Canada
> >
> >
> > On 29 October 2011 20:06, G.LinuxDucks<g.linuxducks@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> **
>
> >>
> >>
> >> Well thanks Roy. I was hoping this did not get taken wrong to be
> >> anything other than how it turned out as some civil discussion. I
> >> appreciate you taking the time and sharing your extensive experience - a
> >> veteran now 10 year user of Linux. Anyone can plainly see you had/have
> >> no reason to lie about anything and your long experience is the great
> >> value here. You have made many good points. I think your views are most
> >>
> --------------cut----------------------------------cut------------------- /
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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