is even worse with Debian 6, unfortunately. They wanted it to be friendlier
but then politics got in the way. In their zeal they stripped proprietary
blobs from the kernel and many (most?) people have proprietary hardware that
is not working as a result. To get it working then you need to do much extra
work which is not conducive to a newbie friendly experience. In my case, my
ethernet card would not work in Debian. It has always just worked in every
distro (100s, including Debian 5) that I have installed whether on my HD or
in a VM. Debian 6 works in my VM, but not on my HD, ironically. The ethernet
card works with the virtual driver. However apt will not work, even though
my connection works. The moral is that Debian still has problems for most
users. Because my network card does not work in Debian I cannot download the
drivers to make it work -- a Catch-22!
If Debian truly wants to attract new users (and I am not sure they do) then
they need to loosen up and cut users some slack. Instead they tighten things
up and make it harder for people due to their vision of achieving a totally
free software experience. Those are two incompatible visions IMO. Being
totally free is worthy, but it is going to marginalise your users and make
you a splinter distro by definition. To attract new users you need to remove
barriers instead of erecting them. Debian wants both and they cannot have
it. That is okay as long as they can live with it and it seems they can't.
They want to be for everyone but are excluding many or most users through
what they offer by default.
Everyone should try Debian at some point. It is a great distribution and one
of the mainstays of Linux. The problem for Debian is that there are so may
easy to use distros based on it that it makes it hard for people to give up
the ease of use to experience Debian itself and afterwards Debian is rather
plain and dull in comparison. That is okay too. Many people do not want all
of the bells and whistles. Ironically Ubuntu's move to Unity may help
Debian. Users who long for the past can install Debian stable which is two
years behind Ubuntu's latest. That way they can have a rock solid distro and
change moves a lot slower. There is much to be said for that in today's
climate of change. Just so long as you accept what it is and don't pretend
that it is what it is not. I like Debian, believe it or not. I was in it
earlier this morning, coincidentally.
I guess this is much like my Mint discussion earlier, but Debian is going in
the direct opposite direction from Mint. In both cases users insist it is
something that it is not. I call them as I see them and take exception when
people call a fish a duck. There is nothing wrong with being a fish or a
duck. We just need to call it what it is.
BTW, this is just opinion and therefore not right or wrong. Opinions differ
and I respect that. People should try Debian and Mint and form their own
opinion. I have obviously done that on both. :)
Roy
Using Kubuntu 11.04, 64-bit
Location: Canada
On 22 June 2011 22:42, g.linuxducks <g.linuxducks@gmail.com> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Linux people like to invite others. Aside from all "tweaky-ville"... if you
>
> would like to experience Ubuntu Linux as the most popular than get the
> standard Ubuntu Linux 10.04 LTS (Long Term Support). There is absolutely
> nothing tweaky-ville nerd-nuts or geek-ganked you have to do to it. Simply
> install and run Update Manager for first run similar to a brand new windows
>
> pc install getting service packs etc.
>
> You are now good to go and experiencing Linux by Ubuntu as their standard
> LTS release in Desktop Edition and famous Netbook Edition as well. It is
> very windows like as far as everything you do on a computer. Email, browse,
>
> install software, uninstall software, launch and use programs, all computer
>
> utilities and User Preferences and so on.
>
> Linux Mint is admittedly somewhat unstable by them. This is as the Ubuntu
> 10.10 and 11.04 because they are not LTS. If you like a desktop background
> more like windows than install Ubuntu 10.10. The one quirk they have not
> been able to fix yet is simply an invalid error message when software is
> installed claiming it wasn't because they couldn't - however it did just
> fine as expected. How many times in Windows do you see invalid error
> messages ? System32 DLL Errors ? Always, and I have used windows for over
> 10
> years. If we think Linux is crap over this than so it goes windows is as
> well then with that line of thinking. You can't have it both ways - one is
> geeky and the other isn't.
>
> How many "tweaks" do you have to go through for Windows ? A zillion. User
> Preferences, Windows Automatic Updates settings, Folder Preferences,
> Security settings in the Windows system and the each and every browser
> installed and in softwares, all the antivirus and antispyware needed to be
> installed and all their tweak settings, all the media players and all media
>
> softwares audio and visual, photos and all their viewer and player
> settings.... it just goes on and on - a zillion - no matter what computer
> system you use.
>
> It may be most practical to just install Debian which is about the most
> mature Linux 'flavor' without the bells and whistles as Windows users get
> addicted to. Ubuntu Linux is geared more towards the windows lover who's
> mainstay is in media and graphics and presentations. This is one of the
> reasons Ubuntu is about the most popular for those who switch to Linux or
> add Linux as a second system either primary or secondary to Windows or Mac.
>
> If you install Debian or any release of Linux do not forget it will not
> work
> as expected unless you run Update Manager at least once for the first run
> install. A new Windows install or launch is NO different and only works on
> a
> limited basis until Windows Updates is done running and other stuff
> installed either by prompt or silently upon first use. You could turn the
> tables here and use your argument against Windows actually. The truth is
> there is NO such thing as an out-of-the-box Home Computer that starts up
> and
> runs forever as is like buying a radio and playing it. You and I both know
> that is true because you are a computer operator (user) already.
>
> People have continually complained about all the "bloatware" that Micro$oft
>
> adds to Windows. Linux gives you the main system ready to fashion it anyway
>
> you wish and is why it is so popular. Linux is not like Windows that
> installs gigs and gigs of nonsense that takes up all the operating
> resources
> until you uninstall all the crap and the hour and hour and another to do
> that. Windows is very slow because of its design. You immediately realize
> that on Linux. All the hung applications and frozen screens and on and on
> do
> not occur in Linux.
>
> Some people just love to be Microsoft junkies as their mark. It is an
> addictive situation. It is not a disability friendly system. There is a
> reason as well people get carple syndrone as well.
>
> Please do not listen to people telling you how you need to be some computer
>
> whiz to run Linux and carry the tales. This would apply to Windows if you
> remember your very first time starting it up and trying to figure out how
> to
> even use it. How long did it take you on Windows to figure out how to send
> your first email ? Uh-huh....
>
> gerald philly pa usa
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Ron Osborne" <majorridge67@yahoo.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 11:13 AM
> To: <LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [LINUX_Newbies] Ubuntu 11.04 Dislike
>
> > My main issue in my life right now is that I have recently returned to
> > college after a job loss as an older student; consequently, I don't have
> > the money, time, and mental energy necessary to start the tweaking
> process
> > to make Linux do what I need it to do at this time all over again. In two
>
> > or three years when I am graduated and (hopefully in a job), I would be
> > willing to do the necessary tweaking and will have fun doing it. Right
> > now, I need my computer to work. As it stands, I may have to suck in my
> > gut and buy a Windows system as my primary OS and go back to doing Linux
> > as just a hobby, whether I stay with Ubuntu or go with another distro.
> >
> > I do appreciate the advice, however.
> >
> > The love of God begins in fear and the fear of God ends in love; and that
>
> > love can never end, for God is love.~John Donne
> >
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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