Re: [LINUX_Newbies] Re: What I've been up to with Linux lately

Thanks for your concern for my soul. :)

Most people are polluted and there are few purists. I agree that Debian
does great upstream work and this is what they excel at. Most people do not
get the water at the source. They get it close to where they live and work.
People live and work in all kinds of situations which means that there is
no one kind of user. People have varying needs and we cannot all drink from
the same cup. That is the crux of the matter. Debian and software freedom
types want everybody to drink the same Kool-Aid as they do.

Freedom has to mean that people are truly free. If you allow one person or
group to narrowly define your freedom then you are not free. You live in a
cage.

People can choose to do that of their own free will. But when you remove
the other choices as valid options or you attempt to ridicule them into
submission then you remove free choice. This parallels what is happening in
society today where one religious group tries to forces its morals on
another group. If people choose them freely then that is consensus, but
when they are forced both sides lose. The side which loses its freedom is
forced into submission (often at a high cost), but the one doing to forcing
loses their moral superiority and become hypocrites.

For me, it is an educational issue. I agree with free software as an
*ideal*, but am practical. We need to work towards it as a goal and not try
to force it on people and in the meantime we need to educate and work hard.
It may not sound like it, but I am a FSF supporter and admire RMS. I am
also a critic because I think they have an admirable goal, but want to fast
track things.

When we discuss things we can agree on some level. I agree with you in
principle. It is the practise on which we disagree. That does not make me
or you wrong. It is a process and that takes time.

Roy

Using Kubuntu 12.04, 64-bit
Location: Canada


On 16 June 2012 17:34, Paul <pfrederick1@yahoo.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>
> --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com, Roy <linuxcanuck@...> wrote:
> >
> > It is not a question of credibility or right or wrong. It is an
> unwinnable
> > argument, both ways. We have choice. I have chosen what works for me and
> > you have chosen what works for you. Most people avoid Debian and prefer a
> > sensible distribution based on it because Debian has made it hard for
> > users. Debian's users make it doubly hard when they go on a crusade. I am
> > selling nothing and not in a p*ssing contest. You took things out of
> > context to make it so. My comment about trying hundreds of distros was
> > linked to Debian not working as hundreds of others do, not to any
> bragging.
> > I wonder why you would do such a thing?
> >
> > The bottom line is in the numbers. Debian is fading to the point that
> many
> > writers and columnists have questioned its relevance and long term
> > viability. There is a reason for that. The stripping away of binary blobs
> > in Debian 6 did nothing to help. Erecting barriers to usage is not going
> to
> > make your distribution more popular or more accessible. That was their
> > stated goal for Debian 6 and they shot themselves in the foot. In
> addition,
> > they failed to gain the seal of approval from the FSF, so they gained
> > nothing.
> >
> > Debian is a terrific ecosystem. It is worth preserving and it would be
> much
> > easier for users of Debian forks to respect Debian, if Debian users were
> > not so angry at the rest of the world. The hatred goes one way. Debian
> does
> > not respect any distro that builds on it if it makes it more user
> friendly
> > or is not in line with its own philosophy. Other distros are not like
> that.
> > Shuttleworth loves what Mint is doing and says so publicly. He does not
> > take every opportunity to dump on it as Debian users do with Ubuntu. In
> > Planet Fedora I see lots of respect being given to Fedora derivatives.
> You
> > cannot get respect without giving it.
> >
> > You might think that I hate Debian, but I do not. I rag on it because I
> > want it to get better and succeed. I have long thought that there is a
> > problem in the Debian community and their disrespect for anything that
> does
> > not conform to their ideals, from FF to Ubuntu. There is nothing wrong
> with
> > ideology. We should be free to have opinions that differ. Debian does not
> > seem to get that freedom means freedom to disagree.
> >
> > We disagree, but it should not result in harsh words, unless you don't
> > think that contrary views are unacceptable. If so, then you do not live
> in
> > a free world, but a dictatorship.
> >
> > Roy
> >
> > Using Kubuntu 12.04, 64-bit
> > Location: Canada
>
> You've some crazy notions I'll give you that. There is Debian which is the
> wellspring then there are all the down stream pretenders that just muddy
> the waters. Your mind has been polluted by the impure.
>
> Pray to St. iGNUcius to deliver you from evil and save your mortal soul!
>
> http://stallman.org/saint.html
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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