On Thu, Jul 08, 2010 at 09:38:42PM -0400, J wrote:
> First of all, I'm not sure if I'm disappointed that no one really
> seems to have caught the jokes, or maybe I'm just that big of a
> nerd...
>
> FWIW:
>
> Caldera Linux = Distributed by Caldera, which later became SCO.
> Caldera ISOs were still available on SCO's ftp servers WELL into their
> anti-linux lawsuit spree.
Yup, as I always say, my first Linux was Caldera before they became
evil. I had a great book on it too, I think I donated it to the
library, as it dealt with kernel 2.2 or something.
>
> >
> > Jeff never worked for them. :) (That's a joke, hopefully, you folks
> > reailze I consider him a veritable Unixgod.)
> > It is more configurable--fewer dependencies, indicating how many, in
> > Fedora and Ubuntu, are unneeded.
>
> I can't claim Fedora. When I left Red Hat we were only up to Red Hat
> 7.3 (didn't even have RHEL yet, kids).
Same thing. Just wait for RH 6.0, errm RHEL 6.0. As you know, they
seem to be letting the Fedora stupidities slip through, and as a
Canonical employee, you'd have been better off not mentioning that to
your friend, but just posting on slashdot after it's released.
>
> > Minimalistic install. Fedora offers this, but still ties too many
> > things to too many other things.
>
> The one thing I really miss is the mimimal install... it was pretty
> cool being able to install Red Hat in under 200MB...
What about your alternate lifestyle--errm, alternate install CD?
>
> > Less insistance on defaults. In Fedora and Ubuntu, usually, your
> > network management tool is going to be GUI by default and starting up
> > all cards, whether you want it or not. With Arch, by default, nothing
> > starts. You have to enable, not disable.
>
> Sadly, while we can shake our fists and lament the loss of the "good
> ol days" while swearing at them darned kids and their newfangled
> gooeys, this is where we are headed. The only real reason BSD isn't
> here now is because the BSDs are a niche (just like Slackware, Gentoo,
> LFS, etc). They have exceedingly small communites, and as a result
> are fare more insular. BSD is kinda like the Amish of the *nix world.
> They still do things like barn raisings and shun all those fancy
> things everyone else uses these days.
LOL--but, I hate to say it, you're probably right. Still, I think the
admin doesn't WANT all this Windowslike stuff, or they'd be Windows
admins.
> > Excellent documentation. Their wiki is one of the few good Linux docs
> > around. Written by users, for users, who get feedback on the forums,
> > and pay attention to it.
>
> Won't argue there... Linux documentation is horribly poor, and still
> maintains its "written by developers for developers" style, but
> compared to what it was 10 years ago, the state of Linux documentation
> for new users is almost to the point of picture books as opposed to
> lofty tomes... Still a ways to go, but getting there.
It wasn't even written by developers for developers--I used to buy that,
and think, well, I'm just not elite enough. Then, I switched to BSD and
said, whoah--it's not me, it's them.
I picture, since both LSD and BSD came out of Berkeley, two bearded
computer geeks, with the munchies. One shows the other the Linux like
man page he wrote. The reader starts laughing, crumbs falling into his
beard and saying, What the **** are you talking about man, I can't
understand this at all. They both dissolve into drug induced laughter,
but then, the author goes back and tries to write something that won't
make his peers laugh.
>
> > Developers in touch with users. You know how often I send Jeff
> > complaints about Ubuntu that are completely ignored? Seriously, the
>
> I never ignore your complaints... in fact, I have a special filter set
> up just for you, Scott ;-)
Ah, that one, I can picture it--if you use maildrop
if (/^From: .*scottro/)
to /dev/null
>
>
> Agreed, but refer to above regarding niches... Sadly though, the whole
> enmity between developer and user is another facet of human nature,
> and really still exists no matter where you are... Some communities do
> a better job of it than others... Admittedly, I've been distanced from
> the Red Hat/Fedora community for some time now, so I don't know what
> the state of that really is, but in all my years of Linux experience,
> I've never met a more responsive, supportive community than the Ubuntu
> one.
I tend to agree, actually. I remember when they Fedorishly broke all
matrix cards--maybe with Breezy, around then. Someone quickly put up a
patch which didn't work--he posted again, a half hour later, Sorry, I'm
a moron, use this.
In fact, it's almost cultish, to a point, and I say that in the
> best possible way. I'm amazed at how active the Ubuntu community is,
> and to some degree the larger Debian community as well, in supporting
> and promoting Ubuntu (did you know that Canonical employs a fair
> number of debian maintainers and programmers?)
Yeah, I did. Seriously, I was impressed by the patience shown on their
forums, though they do tend to sidetrack (he says, contributing several
posts to a ninja vs. samurai thread.)
> > This is *MY* taste of course. Many people want something they can pop
> > in, install, and not have to worry about it. For me, I like the control
> > over my system and the ability to leave things out without them breaking
> > everything else.
>
>
> If I may use a car analogy (and I will, because I LOVE car analogies),
> there was a time when the only transmission you could get was a
> manual. There's a reason why they are still referred to as a
> "standard" transmission. They were the standard. As time marched on
> and more and more people took to driving, someone got the bright idea
> to create an "automatic" transmission. With this new "thing", they
> could market to far more people and say things like "Buy OUR car! You
> don't have to mess with pedals and gear levers! It's easier!" and they
> came. Now, the focus is starting to swing in the other direction.
> People said "We like our automatic transmissions. But those people
> with their manual transmissions have more power! More control!" and
> someone came up with the idea of the automatic transmission you can
> shift like a manual.
Living in NYC, I haven't had a car in years. Don't know if I'd buy a
manual if I bought one while living here, as I'd be shifting every three
seconds--but were I to move back to the suburbs, I'd try to get a manual
one again. And, just like Linux, it's gotten harder to find one that
allows you the control.
--
Scott Robbins
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Faith: You can't trust guys.
Buffy: You can trust some guys. Really, I've read about them.
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