On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 14:46, Scott <scottro@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 07:17:05PM +0200, J wrote:
>
>> Not sure what you mean by "if it actually worked after doing it".
>
> As I think I mentioned, I got no sound with a Quicktime file until after
> I removed totem and installed gecko-mediaplugin.
Meh... you probably did. I blame jet lag.
>> > I actually consider the printer issue to be more serious. The
>> > theoretical LCD user sees that their printer is installed with a driver.
>>
>> Printer drivers != Scanner drivers. In Linux, these multi-function
>> devices are not treated as a single device. Your Printer/Scanner is
>> actually considered a Printer and a Scanner, and require two different
>> drivers. I do agree with you though, that scanner drivers are
>> seriously lacking. Scanner support has come a long way, but still has
>> far to go, whereas printers do generally work at least as basic
>> ghostscript/postscript devices.
>
> Well, all of the scanners I have had--all 2 of them, work well enough
> for me. The issue here, more important for Ubuntu, which wants to be a
> reasonable substitute for Windows, is that this LCD user WILL consider
> them the same thing. It's not even ignorance, per se, it's the fact
> that in proprietary O/S's it's a single device that does two things, and
> instaling a driver for it enables both of these things to work.
> Especially as hplip, (although presently apparently broken in Fedora,
> but in Ubuntu at least), does a perfectly good job of installing the
> entire device--that is, use it instead of the printer dialog, and you
> can both print and scan.
Not at all... I was merely pointing out that the people who make said
multi-function devices only make those good drivers for Windows...
it's not something that Canonical or anyone in the Linux community can
really do as most of the drivers (scanner at least) seem to be the
result of reverse engineering and code-pray-code-some-more
development. Sadly, peripherals will continue to be neglected by the
manufacturers in the Linux space as part of a self-propogating ring of
misery. Without Linux adoption in the end-user/home-user space en
mass, the companies who make various scanners will not create those
one-driver-to-rule-them-all packages but without those drivers,
end-user/home-user adoption won't come as fast as it could.
>> My advice to you is buy hardware that works ;-P
>
> Hrrm, I must not have been clear here. My point isn't that the scanner
> won't work--it works without issue. My point is that said LCD user
> installs their printer which happens easily. They think great, this
> Linux stuff works. Then they try to scan. It doesn't work. Fixed with
> a quick google, but it's the sort of thing they might not realize, and
> then judge Ubuntu, and of course, it's redneck QA people, to be of poor
> quality.
Easy now, Scott... I was agreeing with you and being cheeky. You were
clear enough, and I got what you said (notice I added in my own tale
of trying to get my flatbed scanner to work correctly (and it ISN'T
part of a multi-function device). When I DID buy a
scanner/printer/copier/fax I picked up a Brother system because they
tend to support Linux rather well as far as drivers go. Still had to
download a driver from the Brother website, but it works well enough.
The real issue with the Linux vs Windows driver issue is that the
Linux drivers plain suck. They generally do not do the "good stuff"
that modern scanners do, like dust removal, etc (at least in my
experience). That functionality is only included in the Windows
drivers (again, mostly due to the Linux stuff being developed by
people outside the manufacturer) which further hampers adoption. They
intentionally cripple the drivers that they DO produce (if they do at
all). At least, again, that's been my take on things...
> Whereas, if they use the tools in PCLinuxOS, they get a message--if you
> have an HP printer, don't use this, use this other tool called whatever
> they call it. (Different GUI menu, IIRC). Then their device--the
> entire device works, and they think, ah that is a good thing.
>
> Hopefully this is clear now, sorry for the misunderstanding.
I get the feeling (having not tried this myself, so take it with a
grain of salt) that the PCLinuxOS tool is just installing both the
printer and scanner driver at the same instant instead of the user
hunting for each and installing them separately manually. That's
fine, and Yeah, I agree that that's cool, but there are a LOT of
multi-function devices out there that simply have no drivers for the
scanner portion, while they may have a targeted driver for the printer
portion or they may be fine just using the generic postscript drivers.
>> Now to print out my transit vouchers so I can get back to the airport
>> Wed Morning...
>
> Getting to the airport on time is overrated.
Indeed... shuttle picks me up at 0730... means I have to be awake by 0600 :(
Cheers!
Jeff
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