Re: [LINUX_Newbies] Re: What I've been up to with Linux lately

It is not a question of credibility or right or wrong. It is an unwinnable
argument, both ways. We have choice. I have chosen what works for me and
you have chosen what works for you. Most people avoid Debian and prefer a
sensible distribution based on it because Debian has made it hard for
users. Debian's users make it doubly hard when they go on a crusade. I am
selling nothing and not in a p*ssing contest. You took things out of
context to make it so. My comment about trying hundreds of distros was
linked to Debian not working as hundreds of others do, not to any bragging.
I wonder why you would do such a thing?

The bottom line is in the numbers. Debian is fading to the point that many
writers and columnists have questioned its relevance and long term
viability. There is a reason for that. The stripping away of binary blobs
in Debian 6 did nothing to help. Erecting barriers to usage is not going to
make your distribution more popular or more accessible. That was their
stated goal for Debian 6 and they shot themselves in the foot. In addition,
they failed to gain the seal of approval from the FSF, so they gained
nothing.

Debian is a terrific ecosystem. It is worth preserving and it would be much
easier for users of Debian forks to respect Debian, if Debian users were
not so angry at the rest of the world. The hatred goes one way. Debian does
not respect any distro that builds on it if it makes it more user friendly
or is not in line with its own philosophy. Other distros are not like that.
Shuttleworth loves what Mint is doing and says so publicly. He does not
take every opportunity to dump on it as Debian users do with Ubuntu. In
Planet Fedora I see lots of respect being given to Fedora derivatives. You
cannot get respect without giving it.

You might think that I hate Debian, but I do not. I rag on it because I
want it to get better and succeed. I have long thought that there is a
problem in the Debian community and their disrespect for anything that does
not conform to their ideals, from FF to Ubuntu. There is nothing wrong with
ideology. We should be free to have opinions that differ. Debian does not
seem to get that freedom means freedom to disagree.

We disagree, but it should not result in harsh words, unless you don't
think that contrary views are unacceptable. If so, then you do not live in
a free world, but a dictatorship.

Roy

Using Kubuntu 12.04, 64-bit
Location: Canada


On 15 June 2012 20:05, Paul <pfrederick1@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com, Roy <linuxcanuck@...> wrote:
> >
> > Using Kubuntu 12.04, 64-bit
> > Location: Canada
> > For gaming try the latest Ubuntu. The Software centre includes many games
> > not available in other distros as Canonical is working closely with
> > gaming companies like Electronic Arts and Humble Indie Bundle. Steam for
> > Linux is supposedly on its way later this year.
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > The conversation re: Debian 6 is going nowhere. I have said two times, so
> > this is the third, my ethernet card works with every distro but Debian 6
>
> No matter how many times you say it you won't change wrong to right. Your
> Ethernet Adapter works with Debian, you just cannot manage to make it do
> so. I've told you how.
>
> > and I have tried literally hundreds of distros.
>
> That's nice. I've run Linux for over 17 years now. Who's p*ssing higher up
> the pole?
>
> It is an OTB Realtek. The
> > problem is not the hardware. It is Debian. BTW, it worked with Debian 5
> so
> > they made it not work by removing the binary blobs. That is okay by me.
> But
> > they did not provide a way to get them that was workable. That left me
> out
> > in the cold as far as Debian 6 went. The fault lies with Debian, not me
> or
> > my card (which is one of the most common cards on the market). My
> > conclusion is that they are putting ideology ahead of people. That is why
> > Debian has been relegated to a has been distro. I don't know how I could
> > conclude otherwise.
>
> Maybe if you did not run a distribution based on Debian your words would
> carry more weight? You run a monkeyed with Debian. End of story. I must
> assume you need your dope OS cut, and cannot hack it yourself in the pure
> state.
>
> They do not care about users. They said as much when I
> > contacted them. They told me to buy a new card. How is that helpful?
> >
>
> I wasn't there so I don't know what lead to that unfortunate exchange.
> I've some idea how it transpired though based on what you are writing now.
>
> > I appreciate that people are zealous about freedom, but somewhere the
> > rubber must reach the road. In order to be successful, you must start
> where
> > people are and move them along gradually. The reality is that most people
> > have non-free hardware. You cannot cut them off cold turkey and expect
> then
> > to be happy about it.
>
> What your argument basically boils down to is simply this, you don't want
> Debian to properly classify code based on what it is in reality. Non-free
> closed source is not in Debian's main repository at all in any way, shape,
> or form. You are trying to fault Debian for doing their job too well.
> Others of us appreciate the fine work that the Debian maintainers do.
>
> You actually do too, you just don't know it. Mr. Using Kubuntu 12.04,
> 64-bit
>
> All Ubuntu, and Ubuntu spin offs are based on Debian. Any distribution
> that uses the dpkg package management system is based on Debian. dpkg =
> Debian PacKaGe manager.
>
> $ man dpkg
>
> dpkg(1) dpkg suite dpkg(1)
>
> NAME
> dpkg - package manager for Debian
>
> >
> > Roy
>
> P.S. I have to agree with your Roy you really have gone nowhere with this
> conversation. In fact I'd have to say you're losing credibility with each
> post.
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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