I don't think stereotypes are helpful. I speak my mind and have always done
so.
I did not call you any names of use offensive language. My response to which
you replied and I responded to you was not aimed at you or any individual.
It was aimed at Debian and the community which you have proved by your
behaviour to be what I said it was. I need not offer any evidence thanks to
you.
I have used Debian lots over many years. I have blogged and responded to
many blogs about Linux. My complaints against Debian are founded on my own
experiences. My complaints against the Debian community are based on my own
experience in the forums and on observing how others have been treated. I
also have seen how Debian users have a hate on for Ubuntu and look for any
excuse to rag on people who use it or people who blog about it. I have used
hundreds of distributions over the years and belonged to many communities
and Debian stands apart from all. There is only one other community that for
a time was like that, PCLOS, whose members took issue when Ubuntu passed it
in Distrowatch and for two years they could not say anything nice about
Ubuntu or Ubuntu users. I get it that people go after the from runner, but
there are constructive ways to criticize and destructive. Destruvtive ends
on hurting you more than what you are criticizing.
My criticism of Debian is constructive whether you want to believe that or
not. I want them to have some standards of good behaviour and show some
discipline in the ranks. I want Debian as a distro to succeed. I think the
way to do that is to make it more accessible.
I think that they finally get that, but it may be years too late. Debian 6
looks good, but it still cannot go head to head with Ubuntu or even MEPIS in
user friendliness. They made a few small concessions with that release and
that is worth celebrating, but I could not recommend it to a new user on
that basis. That was offset by removing the binary blobs in the kernel. You
have to remember that new users choose Mint over Ubuntu because it has
proprietary drivers and codecs pre-installed. This is an area to grow in but
in order to win new Linux users over you need to go down a path that Debian
has been unwilling to go down. Therefore the only way that Debian can grow
is to raid the base of other distributions which is going to upset people in
the other communities.
Sending a new user to use Debian is like sending a toddler to swim in the
shark tank. That is the biggest single problem with Debian in my opinion.
That is not going to change until Debian users start resisting the
temptation to stop telling other how to think, what to say and, most of all,
stop using inflammatory language. Offering a rebuttal to what someone says
is helpful to your distribution. Attacking the person who said it does not
help, but actually hurts your distribution. Until Debian users get that then
Debian is going to a lonely hearts club for geeks and hardcore FSF refugees
and nothing else.
Currently I have the following distributions installed on this computer,
Kubuntu 10.10, Ubuntu 11.04, Arch, Fedora 12, SimplyMEPIS 8.5, Aptosid (my
second favourite distro) and I also have Hackintosh OS/X. On my netbook I
have Mint 10. I have recently run Fedora 14, Mandriva, PCLOS and openSuSE
and am about to install Foresight and LMDE. Whenever I install something new
something has to go and it is hard to decide because contrary to what you
might think that I like lots about many distros.
This began with someone having a problem and my saying that Debian is not
known for its user friendliness (a fact) and that asking for help in the
Debian community which was not open and friendly is tricky. Not only do you
have to ask for help but you have to word it in a way that won't get to
lambasted for asking. I have seen people called names for asking to install
FF and not Ice Weasel. They have been lectured and some humiliated. I have
been called not nice names for insisting on calling it Linux and not
GNU/Linux. I am sure that you mean well, but our discussion here does
nothing to resolve the problem and it further emphasizes problems in your
community which you resent my calling attention to and to which you added an
exclamation mark.
Roy
Using Kubuntu 10.10, 64-bit
Location: Canada
On 13 February 2011 07:02, Paul <pfrederick1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> --- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com, Roy <linuxcanuck@...> wrote:
> >
> > No need to be rude. I guess it goes with being a Debian user. You think
> it
> > gives you license to say things others don't. It is a poor substitute for
> > having something useful to say.
> >
> > Roy
> >
> > Using Kubuntu 10.10, 64-bit
> > Location: Canada
>
> No need but you'll anyways Roy. I can see the Canadian's reputation for
> being polite is undeserved!
>
> Let me clear up some of your guessing for you Roy. Before I ran Debian I
> ran Slackware 3.0-8.0, Redhat 7.0-8.0, Caldera 1.4, SuSE 8.0, Ubuntu
> 9.1-10.10, some Mint and a little Arch as well. 16 years does give one a bit
> of time to try a few things out. I do hope these hard facts are of some
> limited use to you Roy.
>
> Now Roy care to explain what license you are operating with to post your
> tripe? Anything useful would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Ever so politely yours,
> Paul
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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