the back burner if that is your decision. A different OS takes time to
become familiar with and you need a level of confidence to tinker that comes
either through experience or through having a computer dedicated to that
purpose. Your daily machine should be something that cannot be broken
through tinkering. Learning begins with asking lots of questions so keep
asking. We are here to help and there is much information on the net
elsewhere.
There is no silver bullet with Linux or anything else. Computer problems
just vary with OS; they do not seem to go away. With Windows your problems
will be with the computer slowing, maintenance time and viruses, etc. With
Linux you do not have those issues, but the learning curve is steeper for a
newbie because you have to unlearn Windows and think in a new way. Sometimes
Linux just works. It all depends on your hardware and the choice of
distribution matching your needs.
Dirty Laundry:
Some here will say that Mint is the answer, but they misread the question.
The user did not say that he wanted or had time to switch distros. That kind
of advice is not helpful for someone with limited time and low interest. It
can even be a turn off. Imagine going to a car dealer and asking to have
your headlights fixed and being advised to switch car brands. It does not
make sense and will only frustrate the person and maybe turn them off you
and your advice. Instead the time to do that is before someone gets the car.
Buy our brand because the headlights never go out. Of course, we all know
that will not be the case and it is a ridiculous assertion. People have
problems with Mint, too. Just because you do not have a problem does not
make it universal. Don't believe me then check the Mint forums where people
have trouble with grub, printers, scanners, wireless. The same as here. Your
problems do not go away when you choose Mint or anything else. It is a
simplistic response to tell someone to switch distros and we do users a
disservice to suggest it.
Mint is Ubuntu with a few things that are in the Ubuntu repositories thrown
in by default. If hardware will work in Mint it will work in Ubuntu. You
just need to add a few steps in Ubuntu. Mint skips these steps and Ubuntu
does not out of conscious choice. This is not necessarily for the best of
Linux or users. Mint can be considered easier to use, but not better. The
advice to switch to Mint is therefore not helpful Just tell them how to do
what they asked and it will work. If you did not need to do that in Mint and
therefore cannot help then it is time to stay quiet not make noise for the
sake of hearing yourself give a Mint commercial.
I was on the receiving end of this kind of advice when I had trouble
installing Debian and was told to buy a new computer because my Ethernet
card would not work and I could not download drivers. I did not create the
problem and my computer works fine with every other distro. My response was
to not use Debian. I can see many newbies being turned off in the same way
when we tell them to switch distros for every problem. They will think that
if Linux is like this then I don't want to be part of it.
I have said this before but some people just do not get it. If a Fedora user
asks for Fedora help do not suggest they switch to OpenSuSE or Ubuntu. If
you cannot answer the question then it is best to keep out of the
discussion. Sending people on wild goose chases and saying they chose the
wrong distro which is what you are saying whether you choose to admit it is
not helpful. It is good to be a booster of your distro, but there is a time
and place for that and it is not a solution to every problem. Switching
distros is an extreme solution and should be reserved as a last resort and
we need to wait till the person suggests it him or herself.
At the very least it reinforces the stereotype that Linux is fragmented and
difficult to use which I do not believe is true. There are divisions in
Linux, but we make it worse when we create division where there should be
none. I am not the Linux police, but this is a recurrent problem and there
is a larger issue which some people do not get. We need to have some
integrity and earn trust and we lose that when we provide bad advice and
sound like a broken record. I hope that I am not the only one who sees this
as a problem. If I am then I am in the wrong place.
Roy
Using Kubuntu 11.04, 64-bit
Location: Canada
On 22 June 2011 11:13, Ron Osborne <majorridge67@yahoo.com> wrote:
> **
>
>
> My main issue in my life right now is that I have recently returned to
> college after a job loss as an older student; consequently, I don't have the
> money, time, and mental energy necessary to start the tweaking process to
> make Linux do what I need it to do at this time all over again. In two or
> three years when I am graduated and (hopefully in a job), I would be willing
> to do the necessary tweaking and will have fun doing it. Right now, I need
> my computer to work. As it stands, I may have to suck in my gut and buy a
> Windows system as my primary OS and go back to doing Linux as just a hobby,
> whether I stay with Ubuntu or go with another distro.
>
> I do appreciate the advice, however.
>
> The love of God begins in fear and the fear of God ends in love; and that
> love can never end, for God is love.~John Donne
>
> --- On Tue, 6/21/11, Roy <linuxcanuck@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Roy <linuxcanuck@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [LINUX_Newbies] Ubuntu 11.04 Dislike
> To: LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 6:56 AM
>
>
> I have had lots of trouble with GNOME 3 and none with Unity, BTW. It seems
> my ATI card does not work well with GNOME Shell and works fine with Unity.
> The big difference between them is not so much the interface, but
> performance. Unity is better by a bit. GNOME 3 uses Mutter and Unity uses
> Compiz as the window manager/ compositor. Mutter was dumped by Canonical
> because it was slow. It is not just my anecdotal experience that this is
> based on. Phoronix tested Unity with Compiz, GNOME 3 with Mutter, GNOME 2
> with Metacity and KDE with Kwin. KDE came out on top, GNOME 2 next, Unity
> third and GNOME 3 last by a whisker. That may surprise a lot of people. KDE
> is slower loading, but works faster once it is loaded. The results will
> vary
> on slower equipment perhaps, but these machines should likely be running a
> lighter DE anyway like LXDE or XFCE. The last two KDE releases have been
> really slick and fast.
>
> I do not like the interface on either Unity or GNOME 3 and I have been
> using
> them since last fall and seen them mature. I have a desktop computer with a
> large monitor, drag and drop and multi-task like crazy. My workflow is
> seriously impeded by both. The biggest problems are the global menu in
> Unity
> when running in a window. It is alonger way to travel when using the GIMP
> for example. Yes, I know that you can right click on the window to get a
> GIMP menu, but it is not the way I work. I have memorised the GIMP so that
> I
> can do most things without thinking. Not being able to run anything but
> full
> screen in GNOME Shell (no drag and drop). Not being able to control the
> system tray or notification area (many apps such as radiotray cannot run
> from it). I could go on. I have tried to change, but it is just more work
> and besides if you are using another interface such as Windows or Mint then
> you need to switch your brain each time you change computers or OS. Some
> people may like the interface which is why I like Unity in concept. It just
> is not for me and likely will never be. KDE does everything that i want and
> more, so there is no need for me to feel the Unity pain.
>
> I do not want this to be seen as anti-Unity or GNOME 3. Each person needs
> to
> try it and decide for themselves much the same way that I did. We all have
> different needs, hardware and backgrounds which is why Linux is perfect for
> most users. There is lots of choice. You do not have to take the default
> setup and can make it your own. The problem as I see it is that people are
> trying Unity, not liking it and dumping Ubuntu. That is not necessary. Now
> you can still use GNOME 2.x and next fall Canonical has said that 11.10
> will
> work alongside GNOME Shell, but GNOME 2.x will be out of the repos, but
> somebody is bound to make a PPA available for those who do not like change.
> My bet is that GNOME 3 and Unity will mature and offer more features and
> keep enough people interested in the default offering for distros that use
> them. For the rest of us we can find new ways to be innovative.
>
> Roy
>
> Using Kubuntu 11.04, 64-bit
> Location: Canada
>
> On 21 June 2011 07:06, J <dreadpiratejeff@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 19:00, Roy <linuxcanuck@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > It is tough for dual booters because it is so unlike Windows. Since
> there
> > > are so many Windows and Linux dual booters some of the changes like the
> > ones
> > > you mention are going to be hard to adjust to and many will think that
> it
> > is
> > > not worth the timer and effort. I like the idea of Unity, but it should
> > not
> > > have been the default interface for 11.04, IMO. Users need more time
> than
> > > Canonical is giving them to adjust. Shuttleworth has Mac envy and
> > probably
> > > does not feel the angst of Linux users from Windows backgrounds. I
> don't
> > > know how much he is driving Unity, but from his defense of it, I would
> > say
> > > that he has much say.
> >
> > Depending on how much of the story you want to believe, WIndows came
> > about because Bill Gates had Mac Envy... As for why now, one good
> > reason I've heard put forth is simply the best way to test something
> > is to release it. No one finds bugs and usability like regular users.
> > That being said, making it default in Natty means that we had the
> > entire Natty cycle to work on it, and all of the Oneiric cycle to
> > tweak and clean it up, and all of the P cycle to make sure it's stable
> > for 12.04 which is an LTS release.
> >
> >
> > > That means that Ubuntu users are going to have some patience and take
> > steps
> > > to avoid problems. One thing they could do would be to install the
> > classic
> > > GNOME desktop in 11.04 and another would be to stick with previous
> > versions
> >
> > It's already there. The old GNOME desktop is an option at login.
> > When you select your username from the GDM menu, notice at the bottom
> > that there's a place to select Ubuntu or Classic Ubuntu (the classic
> > GNOME interface).
> >
> >
> > > till at least 11.10 and possible 12.04 the next LTS. This is better
> than
> > > switching to Mint for example because we don't know where it is headed,
> > just
> > > what they are doing in the short term which is equivalent to installing
> > the
> > > classic desktop. It seems a bit hasty to be jumping distros because
> Unity
> > > may turn out to be very good. The other thing to remember is that you
> are
> > > not alone. There are many Ubuntu users in the same boat and if you give
> > > feedback to Canonical then you can make an impact. Also other distros
> > using
> > > GNOME are also facing similar challenges because GNOME 3 is as radical
> a
> > > change and a performance dog to many as well.
> >
> > GNOME 3 != Unity. Gnome Shell, however, is somewhat similar to Unity
> > in look and feel and probably what you're thinking of here.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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