linuxgeek: [LINUX_Newbies] Re: OTHER POSTING PROBLEMS

Tuesday, October 27, 2009

[LINUX_Newbies] Re: OTHER POSTING PROBLEMS

I've expounded on this before but I'll say it again.

WHY I USUALLY TOP POST.

As Jeff (JerBearCares) noted in another thread, multiply-quoted messages build up in length. It's review material, it's all been seen before. If one is walking through the thread in order, one gets tired of seeing the exact same paragraphs every time. Give me the new stuff! Yes some trimming would be nice, but that presents its own problems.

If an Uber-Guru wants to be clever and skip the original post (OP), and jump in in the middle, yes, bottom posting makes it more convenient to recap everything that has gone before in one swoop.

But edits happen, drift happens, some replies answer one element and ignore others, etc. The only way to be sure you're reading a poster's actual words is to read that person's post. Which means walking down the thread tree in sequence, even if it takes more time.

I do try to phrase my answers in such a way that clues middle-jumpers in to what I'm answering. Many people don't. But a blanket prohibition because of such people isn't the answer, and is unfair to myself and persons like me.

--- In LINUX_Newbies@yahoogroups.com, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:

{snip}

> Jeff answered a question. In his answer, he put, at some point, "Please
> don't top post."
>
> Two other folks jumped into the thread, saying, who are you to tell me
> how to post? That's how the whole mess started.

That's not quite what happened. I was being directly replied to (by Jeff or someone) and told (for the umpteenth time) to not top post. That's when I got annoyed.

>
> There's a reason, as has been stated, that we elite ones request this.
> This is a list, in
> theory, for newcomers, educating newcomers for more elite lists is part
> of it.
>
> But to come in and say, HOW
> DARE YOU TELL ME HOW TO POST, is A) hijacking a thread, lessening its
> usefulness to the original poster, and B) butting into a conversation
> that had nothing to do with you.

It *did* have to do with me.

> Now Roy, whom I greatly respect, mentioned people saying, "Top post and
> I won't read it." What I *have* said, to someone that I was helping, ws
> something like if you top post I may not see your reply. This is true.
> If, two days later, I see something saying, "I did what you told me, but
> it's not working", there's a good chance I'll have no memory that this
> is something I was dealing with, and, as all the IT pros have pointed
> out, we do look through literally hundreds of emails a day. Many are
> things like system report messages, where we can tell, after the first
> line or two if they need investigating, many are from mailing lists like
> this, where we volunteer our time.
>
> If someone top posts fine. If it's someone I'm helping, especially if
> their response isn't immediate, then, I'm sorry, yes, I may not read
> your post. I'm not going to follow every post on every list, there
> aren't enough hours in the day. Folks should really take a look at
>
>
> http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>

I am sufficiently conversant with the English language that I can parse writings regardless of format, top-, bottom-, or interleaved-posting. It just gets me hot under the collar to be told "This Is The One True Way that *smart* people do it, you better do it too, or else"

It is an imposition of rules where there need not be any.

Posting is like any other writing, it reflects a person's style, and different people have different styles. Inflexibility, and forcing other people to match one's own inflexibility (because that's easiest for the inflexible one), has never been an optimal solution. History shows us that much.

Most of the "don't top post" arguments boil down to "It's easier for me (the Uber-Guru) to read."

In other words "If you don't go out of your way to make everything easy for me, you're a lazy bum."

There are intelligibility issues, phrasing and wording choices that
make a post unreadable or incomprehensible that have NOTHING to do with paragraph style. Let's work on weeding those out.

> Again--everyone, do what you want. But your post better be darn
> interesting if you expect many of the most knowledgeable people on the
> list to read it. Sorry if that sounds elitist, but that's the way it
> is.

I'm sorry for the anger with which I've most recently expressed my sentiments, but not for holding the sentiments themselves.

If people wish to ignore me for being a "lazy b*st*rd who can't be bothered to conform to The Way Its Done" well, then so be it. And I'm willing to end my membership in this forum if my input isn't valued.